Hare Krishna,
Pamho,
AGtSP!
Why devotees surrender themselves to some senior devotees or Guru maharaj so much so that
sometimes they go against their own will. I am a person who listen to my inner self and take decisions
with full dependence on krishna. I have seen devotees who take important decisions of life based on the suggestions or orders of guru even decisions like Marriage, Children, Job etc. I think there should some decisions which has to be taken based on your personal experience and choice because you know
what you lack and what you need in life. Ofcourse I dont deny that Guru is more knowledgable but again you know what you want. Taking opinion is not bad but fully surrendering your thought process is something alarming. Please give your valuable thoughts on this discussion.
Your servant
Aakash
Replies
But seeking guidance of devotees and guru ensures our path to be blameless.some times even great physicians consult others!
Hare Krsna
Surrendering thought process to guru is something alarming
Surrendering thought process can happen when the person is fully sheltered by instructions of guru.
Example - One old man 70 years going in a cargo ship to foreign land, oceans across with no money, thinking of spreading holy names in a land of mlecchas and yavanas is alarming, bewildering, unfathomable, unthinkable, undreamable.
But it happened. How ?? because he was completely sheltered and protected by instructions of his guru and saw it as Krsna's desire. In Markine Bhagavat Dharma Srila Prabhupad pours out his heart when he was on Jaladuta
O spiritual master of all the worlds! I can simply repeat Your message, so if You like You can make my power of speaking suitable for their understanding.Only by Your causeless mercy will my words become pure. I am sure that when this transcendental message penetrates their hearts they will certainly feel engladdened and thus become liberated from all unhappy conditions of life. O Lord, I am just like a puppet in Your hands. So if You have brought me here to dance, then make me dance, make me dance, O Lord, make me dance as You like.I have no devotion, nor do I have any knowledge, but I have strong faith in the holy name of Krsna. I have been designated as Bhaktivedanta, and now, if You like, You can fulfill the real purport of Bhaktivedanta.
One is not expected to jump to this overnight. It is a gradual process of accepting shelter and surrendering. It is good to meditate on how great acaryas surrendered to will of Krsna coming through instructions of Spiritual master and celebrated Krsna consciousness joyfully.
YAS Bharat
Hare Krsna
Taking guidance on from devotees
It is a matter of personal choice. If one is fully convinced that by taking complete shelter of a devotee of Krsna one is able to better situate himself in Krsna consciousness and serve lord in a better way then one can go ahead and surrender.It is a two way process. One is sheltered by the devotee of Krsna then one can surrender.
One must surrender with intelligence not surrender the intelligence to anyone and everyone. It is not even expected that way. It is clearly a gradual process not always a binary 0 or 1.
Example : Arjuna asks so many questions to Krsna regarding what to do, what he means, why he says so etc. Krsna so many times tells him what is best. Krsna never forces Arjuna you HAVE to do this else you are doomed for eternity. Krsna tells if you do A then aA' will happen. If you do B then bB' will happen. It is your choice Arjuna what to do. But since you have asked my opinion, best is to do this.
In our practical lives one may face difficult situations. So much so that we don't know what is best and we are confused. When one genuinely takes guidance of devotees there is nothing wrong in it. Devotees when guiding can never force anyone to compulsorily perform certain actions. The onus to perform actions and take responsibility for it is always on us.
YAS Bharat
Hare Krishna dear Vaishnavas,
Please accept my humble obeisances! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
In the reality to make decisions for a man is easier than for girls. Because of that mostly women should be depended.
It is because men are good at practical life where as women have strong intuition etc.
Usually women need husband mostly for that - to make decisions. What husband says she follows and acts accordingly.
So, Aakash Prabhu, it is nice that You have confidence to make decisions. It shows the braveness of a person.
But as other Devotees here nicely mentioned, completely with no guidance in life we cannot live properly.
Child grows up by living according to parents' orders, teachings.
Later school teachers ...
Psychologists, counselors, ...all are there to help people to get some ideas and make correct decisions with minimum mistake.
We can make - everyone can make decisions. But the problem is - do we do that correctly?
Simple example from my own life:
After school I was working as a chess teacher; jobs was for 3-4 hours; close to my house; After all I was satisfied with everything I am getting and doing.
But my Mother forced me literally to go and give exam to University and study further.
So I did. And it was for good only.
So many times our own desires may not be so good for our good future so that time we need people who are more intelligent than us, don't we?!
In my life, if I act according to the wills and advices of my seniors I succeed. And many times because of my naughtiness I also do not listen and act as per my own concoctions and believe after that I really suffer.
So I personally prefer to hear my well-wishers.
Since for time being I cannot hear Krishna's orders, voice so accept the reality that He speaks through all these People to me.
Your servant,
you said : So I personally prefer to hear my well-wishers.
many so called well wishers are not good advisers at all, because their advise are based on economical development, body comfort and modern material education.
its like in chess, whats the point of perfectly playing opening ,when in end game ,you are going to lose .
real well wishers are those who talks to you about krishna and his past times for the welfare of your soul.
if the personal relationship with krishna doesnt start, human life is wasted.
talking to him , praying to him , loving him, thinking on him, singing to him, writing for him, dancing for him,doing it without mechanical robotic way, but rather on spontaneous and emotional way.
nobody can fell in love without emotions, especially when god is the subject.
Hare Krishna,
Listening to inner self, is good, actually. But only when you have surrendered to Krishna. Surrendering in the sense, to what He told( in accordance to Bhagavad Gita/Bhagavatam). Equipped with His divine knowledge, you can take decisions accordingly. I mean if you are not surrendered to Him completely, your lower(material) self may guide you with the decisions that might affect you. So, follow what the Lord said, surrender to His knowledge and take decisions.
People go to their Gurus for taking important decisions because they are the learned ones. Having said that, in this Kaliyuga, its not easy to find such a learned one. Majority are disguising as Gurus and leading people to material miseries.
Regards,
Subash
Hare krishna Dean Prabhu,
I said I am dependent on Krishna and I didn't say that I am detached or self realised.
Dependence on Krishna doesn't mean I have to leave family and go wandering. I use
my little intelligence before making big decisions of my life. I will defenetly surrender
when I come across someone who is self realised in this age of hypocracy. Thank you.
ys
Aakash
grihasta ashrama can be very big wall on the path to god,
anyway , never forgetting lord and keeping him in your heart as most dearest person ,
there will be no fear, even if you live in hell .
as you already know , at this moment of kali yuga almost nobody is qualified to be vedic guru, father, mather, friend,..
therefore ,there is only gods holy names and krishna katha our saviors.
by the way , nobody asking that you need to surrender to anyone but god,
student serve his guru as his representative , therefor guru is giving you a path of surrendering to god.
despite the truth that bonafide guru is good as god himself,
if any guru claims to be savior and ask his student to surrender in the way you need to surrender to god, he is just unqualified guru and fallen offender on the way to hell.
senior vaishnavas can be very proud of position they have in the movement,
thinking that they are more advanced in bhakty yoga and scriptures then others,
putting themselfs in position to behave as strong hand and strict brahmana acaryas already .
anyway, by tolerating that ,being respectful to them,
soon you will get human positive response and care , realizing how natural humans they are under skin .
they doing their best, so we need to be tolerant and forgiving to them.
iskcon movement is one of the gods given movements for singing holy names.
even if someone disagree with philosophy or other things,
this should not be a reason of avoiding singing holy names of lord with vaishnavas.