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Did we really fall or were we here for eternity?in Bhagavad Gita lord Krishna said after reaching the supreme abode of his no one comes back.then how can we fall?

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Hare Krishna

A father will tell his children not to be naughty, otherwise they will be punished. This does not mean the children will be punished. In a similar way, Lord Krishna can state that a soul never returns to the material world. But when you look at eternal time and go back or forward zillions of years to the power of zillions. Most souls must have been back and forth between the spiritual and material manifestation, millions of times.

"After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection." (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 8.15)

Based on the Bhagavad-Gita, time is eternal, we are eternal, we have free will, and the material manifestation is vast with millions of universes. Thus based on the laws of probability, the probability of any soul going back and forth between the spiritual and material manifestations, millions of times, is ONE.

Read more at:

http://eternalreligion.org/the-highest-science-is-in-the-bhagavad-g...

Hare Krsna 

Most souls must have been back and forth between the spiritual and material manifestation, millions of times.

This is in direct contradiction with Lord's own words in BG. This needs to be substantiated by shastric references because this is not correct.

Thus based on the laws of probability, the probability of any soul going back and forth between the spiritual and material manifestations, millions of times, is ONE.

How ??

Hare Krsna

Hare Krishna Bharat Prabhu

What I stated cannot be understood unless one has advanced mathematical and computer science knowledge. Also one has to think beyond the human conception of time and be open minded.

The proof of my statement is in my first message and I also give example to explain the Bg 8.15:

"Based on the Bhagavad-Gita, time is eternal, we are eternal, we have free will, and the material manifestation is vast with millions of universes. Thus based on the laws of probability, the probability of any soul going back and forth between the spiritual and material manifestations, millions of times, is ONE."

This is not mentioned directly in any scripture that I have come across, but it may have been stated by other devotees. Not everything will be directly stated in the scriptures. The Bhagavad-Gita and other Vedic scriptures can be understood by realizations. The knowledge comes from realizations.

For example, there is no mention of Radha Rani, nor Lord Caitanya in the Bhagavad-Gita, still we worship them. Lord Krishna clearly states to only worship Him in 18.66 and many other verses in the BG, but still we worship Lord Caitanya, Lord Ram, Lord Narasima, Radha Rani and so on.. Why?

Based on your logic, it's incorrect to worship Radha Rani, Lord Caitanya, Lord Ram, Lord Narasima and so on.. because they are not mentioned in the Bhagavad-Gita.

Based on 8.22, 18.66 and many other verses, we should only worship Lord Krishna. But we don't follow this, due to great devotees like Srila Prabhupada who had other realizations and based on him we worship Lord Ram, Lord Caitanya etc...

Bg 8.22 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is greater than all, is attainable by unalloyed devotion. Although He is present in His abode, He is all-pervading, and everything is situated within Him

"Unalloyed devotion" means only Lord Krishna and nobody else. If we want to follow exactly what the Gita states. In a similar way 8.15 does not mean the soul which has free will will never want to return to the material world in eternal time.  Think of a time period of zillion to the power of zillion zillion years, can you imagine this time period? Also the Sanskrit is not easy to translate exactly in English.

Bg 8.15:

mam upetya punar janma
duhkhalayam asasvatam
napnuvanti mahatmanah
samsiddhim paramam gatah

The "never return to this temporary world" is based on devotees realization of the above verse. It's not fixed and clear cut.

Hare Krsna 

What I stated cannot be understood unless one has advanced mathematical and computer science knowledge. Also one has to think beyond the human conception of time and be open minded.

This criteria would not disqualify your servant from understanding the statement you have put forth, provided it is correct.

This is not mentioned directly in any scripture that I have come across, but it may have been stated by other devotees. Not everything will be directly stated in the scriptures. The Bhagavad-Gita and other Vedic scriptures can be understood by realizations. The knowledge comes from realizations.

 So does this mean some one has realized this --> probability of any soul going back and forth between the spiritual and material manifestations, millions of times, is ONE. ??

It would be very interesting to know more about such persons. Kindly give more details about such people. 

For example, there is no mention of Radha Rani, nor Lord Caitanya in the Bhagavad-Gita, still we worship them. Lord Krishna clearly states to only worship Him in 18.66 and many other verses in the BG, but still we worship Lord Caitanya, Lord Ram, Lord Narasima, Radha Rani and so on.. Why?

Because scriptures say that Lord Rama, Lord Narasimha Lord chaitanya are same visnu tattva as Lord Krsna. 

rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who manifested Himself personally as Kṛṣṇa and the different avatāras in the world in the forms of Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Vāmana, etc., as His subjective portions. Brahma Samhita 5.39

Worship of Radharani is by mercy of Lord Chaitanya and gosvamis of vrindavan. This is perfectly in accordance with scriptures. 

After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogīs in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection. BG 8.15

Bg 15.6 That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this material world.

Bg 15.16 There are two classes of beings, the fallible and the infallible. In the material world every living entity is fallible, and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible.

This is so simple that even a child can understand. 

Based on your logic, it's incorrect to worship Radha Rani, Lord Caitanya, Lord Ram, Lord Narasima and so on.. because they are not mentioned in the Bhagavad-Gita.

No logic has been presented to indicate this offensive statement. All that was asked was shastric reference and such illogical statements are presented, doesn't make sense.

What logic is there is rejecting Krsna's words and accepting something that "may" have been stated by other "devotees"

Lord Krsna says that once souls reach spiritual world they never come back. Simple. No need of any advanced mathematics of probability computer science. And if with advanced mathematics and computer science one comes to a conclusion which is 180 degrees opposite to words of Krsna then it is not coorect. Because Krsna is Supreme personality of absolute truth.

Hare Krsna

Why would our Lord confuse us if he said we don't come back this will be the truth right?

Lord is so kind to the conditioned souls that if they call upon Him by speaking His holy name, even unintentionally or unwillingly, the Lord is inclined to destroy innumerable sinful reactions in their hearts.

Unfortunately, the offenders can not be purified on that way. 

Hare Krsna,

PAMHO.

I am surprised advanced maths is required to understand Krsna and His philosophy. There was no such qualification given by any of the great devotees or even the devotee avatar Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Narottam Das Thakur has mentioned that patita pavan hetu tava avatar, mo sama patita prabhu na paibe aar. 

Anyways, when the lord Himself states, many times in Gita, yad gatva na nivartante tad dham paramam mama - going where, one doesnt return, is My abode, then if we still doubt or have our own interpretation, what is the point of all philosophy?

To answer the Q being asked, did we really fall, or we were here for eternity, there are 2 schools of thought on that also. One says we fell, another says we were here only. Regardless, what all gurus say is - when one is caught in fire or when one is drowning, one doesnt get into an analysis of how the fire started or how one reached drowning stage, one concentrates on how to get out of the trouble. Once we have realised that this world is full of miseries and temporary and there is an eternal abode,  full of bliss, where our ever well wisher, friend is waiting for us, would we not try to reach there at the earliest? Pls concentrate on that.

Haribol,

Your servant,

Radha Rasamayi DD

Ji Rajddah DDthe stark truth about this body is-
The ugly ness of a terd wheather purified or wikked & stipend in stupped! Thus discribed is the fact about it. Thus we the embodied beings are accually always utterly relient upon the causless compassion of others for their acceptances. Repulsive by it's constitution, is way the 1st. Thing tought in Yogic practices is to become/identify with your energies- as your being & forget the body as of primarily the cause of any of the conchusness evolutions. The (false ego's) is conditioned to identify with the body & it's experience as "some on some level," to be of significance but it just ain't so & it is not going to happen. For that reasion and others, such as expressed lack of "Revrence"/honouring with grattatude, by it's being neglected as a duty. To stark ignorance of how to. Hence how can one ever realize why one should. So many reasons the eval minded wikked beings are being kept from even entering the good graces of our Subtal realms of even these materal heaven's grace/favor what tp speak of entering a relm where no Sun or Moon is needed because everything has it's own self-efolgent light. Jesus said "strive for perfectionism as all things in our father's heaven is' perfect"?
My friend *? Perfectiin is not even in the realm of possibilities for this form!-(
So though your thoughts are veary Valent & filled with spiritually and ferver. We can assume KRISHNA is being as direct & streat forward as He always is, when He says what He says (allways) He doe's request that we prepair for "a long hall, of 10,000 years w/the understanding that Myah's influences will , by then make it/ this physical-plane to "insufferable for (any kind of spiritual progression. & that a heavenly experience is possible but not permanent, & also that another Humen form or i.e. anoither chance at a physical /Humen form is' most likly our (best case sinneario) to expect at this time. As no one is chanting anywhere near 64 rounds everyday! Or "offering everything we do, say, eat, offer or giveaway to the service of Vishnu." Krishna's suggested formula, of deliverance for Soul.
So no it is not a fact nor a possibility that there are some Servent Souls so prolificly disposed to all knowledge or compassiontely on any level to traverse intentionally backward voluntarily to & fro into & out of this place of adversary twords the Truth of God's standers of Hi's internal associations. Believe above all things that Krishna & Hi's teachings/words are always strat forward truthful & intended to mean exactly what has been said pce cuz
That is How He rool !

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