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Why is they censorship of thought in present day Iskcon?

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Because ISKCON started with a noble, (albeit naive) idea - but then progressed to a "cult-like" movement. It has become a fantasy world escape for the intellectually weak, who are unable to bear the stresses of modern living. There is no scope of independent/progressive thought in ISKCON and you have to keep repeating the rhetoric put in position by the "seniors" to be deemed fit enough for "KC" (or Krishna Consciousness for the uninitiated) - otherwise you are just a "rascal". Plus there is a severe emphasis on "chanting" all through your waking hours, so that no stray thoughts or unwelcome questions come to your mind - akin to a form of mind control. Logic severely fails here and any pragmatic thought is beaten to death by one or more of the phrases - "Not in the scriptures", "Demonic thoughts", "You'll understand when you give up all tamasic foods and only eat prasadam and chant your rounds" etc.

Modern day ISKCON has become a cross between Late Medieval Bhakti Scriptures, American Christian Conservatism, Staunch Islamism and Scientology.

Hare Krsna Prabhuji,

PAMHO.

Pls explain what you mean by censorship. We call it training the mind - which we have to do in any field, whether education or to acquire any skills... just imagine, if we have to train our mind for a mundane thing which gives temporary benefits, how much more we need to train our mind for the ultimate thing - gift of love of GOd. 

To Wizeman prabhu, it is fashionable to do ISKCON bashing, esp on this website. Makes a few people feel great, like they achieved something. If you have any specific pain points, you can discuss, sweeping statements are not recommended. 

What independent progressive thought has been repressed? And what is the rhetoric that "seniors" in ISKCON ask you to repeat? 

There was an instance when one devotee walked upto Prabhupada and said, the 4 regulative principles are very difficult to follow. SP said, dont follow. It is completely voluntary, there is no force.

First you will come here voluntarily, then bash up everyone because it is your birthright. And ofcourse everyone is supposed to be polite and tolerant, because after all - trinadapi sunicena, tarorapi sahishnuna.... this doesnt apply to people who have so called understood. This is a voluntary organisation. There are poeple at different levels in this organisation - right from neophyte to pramahamsas, Pls do not generalise. 

Haribol,

Your servant,

Radha Rasamayi DD

Hare Krishna,

The university creates the course and prescribes certain regulations for the student to get a degree. Certain things are censored under university rules. For example the student cannot copy in the exam. If he disobeys he will not get the degree. Just there are do's and dont's in the university rule book similarly there are do's and dont's in the scriptures. If it not there in university rule book the student should not follow it. If it is not there in the scriptures one should not follow it.

The university gives full freedom to the students to obey or disobey it. Those who obey get the degree and those who disobey don't get the degree. The duty of the student is to obey the university rules.

Similarly the soul has full freedom. Just as the duty of the student is to study similarly the duty of the soul is to serve. Just as the student can disobey the university and get a fail the soul can disobey the scriptures , serve the senses in the body and remain in this mortal world full of miseries. Just as the student obeys the instructions of the university, the soul can listen to the scriptures, serve the supreme and return back to Vaikuntha free of miseries.

Just as the university has censored certain things to get the degree similarly, scriptures have censored certain things to revive our original eternal identity, to serve the Lord and get rid of this mortal world.

Haribol,
S.Balaji.
S.Balaji prabhu, you have misunderstood censorship for rules and regulations. Censorship means:
Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information that may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.
So my question was, why is there censorship in today's Iskcon? Censorship of thought, ideas and discussion about certain subjects.
Dear Jeremiah Mair,

Greetings and Hare Krishna.

I don't know what do you mean by certain subjects.

In Gita Chapter 10 verse 9 Krishna mentions

The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are surrendered to Me, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss enlightening one another and conversing about Me.



and in Chapter 9 text 27 Krishna mentions

O son of Kunti, all that you do, all that you eat, all that you offer and give away, as well as all austerities that you may perform, should be done as an offering unto Me.


and hence whatever thoughts , ideas and discussion of subjects that is relating to Krishna is carried over.Other subjects which is not related to Krishna is not carried over.

Haribol,
S.Balaji.
Dear. S Balaji prabhu
Please Accept My Humble Obeisances; All Glories To Srila Prabhupada
The subjects I am referring to our around the guru issue e.g. The ritvik order from Srila Prabhupada and how the gbc are not following. There is full censorship of discussing this. Anyone who says that happens to agree with the order is automatically banned from all Iskcon activities.
This subject is clearly connected to Krishna, as without a bonefide guru no one can progress in their spiritual life.

Hare Krsna Jeremiah Prabhu,

PAMHO.

PLease do ISKCON Disciple Course. YOu will be pleasantly surprised - not only is the Ritvik topic discussed, it is explained. In the exam, there are questions related to it. There is no censorship. That is why I asked you to specify what censorship you are talking about.

ISKCON as an organisation has taken a stand and explained the reason behind it. If that is not good enough, then one has to go where one is satisfied.

Haribol,

Your servant,

Radha Rasamayi DD

Dear Mataji.

Please Accept My Humble Obeisances; All Glories To Srila Prabhupada.

In the course the ritvik topic is only briefly talked about and is completely biased and only defeats straw arguments. Everyone in the course is told anyone who doesn't agree with what is being taught is not welcome to continue. And that no should read anything which is against the gbc's stand on the matter. This is definitely a behaviour of a cult, where logical and free thinking is not allowed.
The course says that everyone is responsible for choosing their own guru after reading Srila Prabhupada teachings and come to their own conclusions. If someone after doing this one comes to the conclusion that Srila Prabhupada wanted to remain the diksa Guru then you you are told you can't and must choose somebody else.
The mere mention of the word Ritvik sends many devotees into a violent frenzy and hatred towards the mentioner.
Surely this topic should be discussed without retribution in an open and sensible manner with all facts from both parties. It seems that Iskcon does not want to do this.
Haribol

Hare Krsna Prabhuji,

PAMHO.

See its like this. Ritvik is one stand and ISKCON has one other stand. This topic has been debated by GBC at length and the stand has been determined. It is not possible to do this debate with every single new entrant or possible entrant in ISKCON. 

If you are not satisfied by the stand taken by ISKCON, please feel free to look elsewhere. There is no bar. Why blame ISKCON for your lack of confidence?

Now to take the ritvik argument further, they say Srila Prabhupada is the only guru and others are initiating on his behalf. Then what about the gurus before him? Why he is the starting point and not Chaitanya Mahaprabhu? Simple logic prabhuji. If you are not convinced, please please feel free to join the ritviks. No one in ISKCON is forcing you. After years, when you want to come to ISKCON fold, you will still be welcomed. Spirituality opens the borders, broadens the horizons, it does not restrict. 

Balaji prabhu,

I read your story with a lot of interest. See everything can be interpreted in more than one way. After reading your story, I felt you were directed to whom, an initiating guru. Reminded me of the story of HH Radhanath Maharaj, if you have read the The Journey Home. 

Haribol,

Your servant,

Radha Rasamayi DD

Hare Krsna Mataji,
Please Accept My Humble Obeisances; All Glories To Srila Prabhupada

Every time the gbc have issued a statement regarding the ritvik issue they have been throughly defeated and they have been forced to change there position papers. So much so that today they don't even have an official position. They will not admit that they don't have a clue with what Srila Prabhupada actually ordered. They are simply cheating sincere devotees.

I see that you too do not know what the ritviks are saying. They simple state that Srila Prabhupada's orders should be followed as he gave them, it is not for us to question why previous acaryas chose different ways to continue the parampara system. We can't jump over the current link (Srila Prabhupada).

Iskcon is Srila Prabhupada's movement and devotees must make sure that his teachings/ standards are kept as he gave them. If thieves comes and take over then they must be exposed and kicked out, it's not that we just leave!

Haribol
Your Servant
Jeremiah

Hare Krsna Prabhuji,

PAMHO.

We can go on and on, me saying you are not informed and you saying the same thing to me. I have personally seen videos of eye witness account of senior devotees telling that Srila Prabhupada said - each of you should have 50,000 disciples. How to have disciples without initiating. 

How to determine who is speaking the truth and who is not? Neither you were there at that time, nor me. The way I do it is - I see a lot of pure souls in ISKCON, pure devotees, exalted souls, who are realised way beyond me. I do not know the truth, they do. I believe looking at them. What is making them stay in this organisation run by thieves? If they are blessing it, I can follow. I do not bother to cloud my mind with these irrelevant things. After all, I will reach God not on the basis of which organisation I belong to, but on the basis of my personal sadhana. Thats why I do not compromise on my personal sadhana, and am eternally grateful to the institution that has shown me the path, nutured me and is still tolerating all my misgivings. 

You are convinced that ISKCON is cheating you and thieves have taken over. THis is what ritviks have said. So you are following ritviks. Not an issue at all. Do not try to impose your views on ISKCON. Do not come to an ISKCON forum and start bashing up ISKCON.

You want to know what ritviks are doing - they do not give any respect to their initiating guru maharaj. He is made to stand in line for prasadam. DId you know this? 

Let us agree to disagree - you have chosen your path and I have chosen my path. I see a lot of pure devotees in ISKCON and am at peace with my choice. 

Haribol,

Your servant,

Radha Rasamayi DD

Hare Krsna Mataji
Please Accept My Humble Obeisances; All Glories To Srila Prabhupada

I'm not trying to convince you, you have made a choice and that is up to you, I hope that you did it by evaluating with all the evidence and not out of ignoranc.

Many people accept things in ignorance and that is not good, so the ritvik advocates try to give evidence of what Srila Prabhupada actually said and wrote and not what someone may misremember or makeup.

Devotees should at least have all the information before they make a decision of who they follow. Do you not agree?

Your Servant
Jeremiah

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