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Pranam. My friend, who is a devotee is pregnant for two months.Her husband who is alsoa devotee is asking her to just abort the baby as they are not so strong financially.He family does not encourage her anyway but she doesnt want to perform this sinful act.her husband, who is supposed to be a bhakti sastri graduate, a brahman initiated devotee for the past 17 years claims that is not sinful o kill the embryo when it is only 2 months old. Well, Srila Prabhupada said it clearly that once a woman gets pregnant, the child is already born...
No matter in what stage, killing is killing... But he seems to argue that it is okay to abort the baby..this is similar to what some foolish people say that egg is actually vegetarian and can be eaten since the chicken is not formed yet..
What makes me jump is...he is a devotee....
Please help me...how can i explain to this person in a way that he will never ever think again about abortion in his life...i really feel bad for the mataji...... how shall i encourage her?
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Hare Krsna mataji. PAMHO. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
A devotee maintain his devotee status as long as he is following scripture thoroughly and spiritual master's words. Now Srila Prabhupada clearly stated many times that abortion is most abominable act and one has to suffer for that in this life or next. Now if someone is concocting their idea about what is wrong and what is right, than he no longer can be said act like a devotee. Devotee doesn't means he has priviledge to act according to his own whim contradicting sastras. Once we have done any thing we have to take the responsiblity. Running away from problem is not a solution but creating further Karmic reactions. So in this case a child can't be aborted , the price has to to be pay for our act. He has to take care of the child.
Hare Krsna Mataji !
It’s very sad and disheartening to know about this. Did not he know before taking up the step that they are financially sound, or they became a pauper overnight? Did not they know that a initiated devotee is not supposed to have a child without taking prior approval of their spiritual master?
It’s really ironical that despite being a devotee for last 17 years and that too a brahmin initiated one, he even does not understand what a normal school child know, who is not even a devotee. Any school child can tell that every action has equal and opposite reaction. Even in simple language Abort means end or terminate or stop midstream, then how he is saying that by 2 months there is no life, is he a gross scientist or a devotee. It is clearly mentioned at various occasions by Srila Prabhupada, one who aborts the child has to suffer the same fate.
Please find below one of such references on the same :
(Purport of Srimad Bhagvatam 7.2.37) - “In the Mahabharata it is said, adarsanad ihayatah punas cadarsanam gatah. This statement could support the theory of the atheistic scientist that the child in the womb of the mother has no life but is simply a lump of matter. To follow this theory, if the lump of matter is aborted by a surgical operation, no life is killed; the body of a child is like a tumor, and if a tumor is operated upon and thrown away, no sin is involved. The same argument could be put forward in regard to the King and his queens. The body of the King was manifested from an unmanifested source, and again it became unmanifested from manifestation. Since the manifestation exists only in the middle — between the two points of unmanifestation — why should one cry for the body manifested in the interim?”
Such sinful acts happen when people take initiation either without getting trained properly by the local counsellor or not following the instructions of their spiritual master. Some goes to the extent of taking second initiation too only in order to show their supremacy in devotional life without really following the instructions meant for the same.
What is the difference between him and an ordinary karmi? A ordinary karmi also thinks the same that he is the doer, everything is in his hand, he plans for present, his future, his family future, various policies etc. etc. So he is always stressed, first he makes the budget and spend the whole month in stress to remain in that budget but if some unexpected expenses come like sickness, school expenses, house/vehicle repair etc. then he is doomed. He buys house/car etc on loan thinking that this much he will pay in instalment but if suddenly his job is taken away he is doomed. There are numerous such examples, this all happens because he thinks himself the Lord of his life/family and makes plans and tries to achieve them by his own efforts. He cannot understand that he is just a puppet in hand of maya.
Bhagvad Gita 3.27
The spirit soul bewildered by the influence of false ego thinks himself the doer of activities that are in actuality carried out by the three modes of material nature.
Bhagvad Gita 18.61
The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.
Now coming back to the question, please go through first verse of Sri Isopanishad :
isavasyam idam sarvam
yat kinca jagatyam jagat
tena tyaktena bhuntitha
ma grdhah kasya svid dhanam
Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one should not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong.
Also read the verse and purport of Bhagvad Gita 14.4
It should be understood that all species of life, O son Kunti, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father.
Now from the above 2 verses, it is clear that Krsna is the Supreme Father of all species of life and even before their taking birth in this material world, their quota/maintenance is already arranged by Him.
People foolishly think that just by doing intercourse one can beget a child and if they don’t need they will either use contraceptive or abort and when they need they will again make physical contact. They think that they are maintaining their family, they fail to understand that we are just given charge to maintain our dependents but real maintenance is when we help our dependents get out from the repeated cycle of birth & death, simultaneously resulting into our own liberation too.
So Mataji, if you can convince them, tell them not to stop or delay the poor soul chance of getting a rare opportunity of human body which is the only vehicle which can help the poor soul sail through the vast ocean of miseries. Why not help the child attain brahminical qualities since beginning, make him Krsna conscious child. If anyhow they feel helpless in raising him, they can after giving him basic spiritual knowledge and devotional atmosphere, enroll him in Gurukula school and help him attain transcendental knowledge by which not only he will get liberation but can help liberate thousands other poor souls too and his parents too.
We can only pray that they soon come out of the clutches of material energy and understand the grave sin they are thinking to commit.
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Hare Krsna !
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thank you everyone especially harish prabhu for your clear explanation.and, ya...i do agree with sudipta that a father who asks his wife to abort his child will not hesitate to abandon the family all together......
definitely krishna will payback even for thinking about it.....some people simply cant walk their talk....and to think an iskcon brahman doing this....humiliating....
i will encourage her to carry on with the pregnancy....i asked her to talk to her spiritual master before talking to his spiritual master...lets see whether he can tell the same"logic" to his guru.
may jaganath protect the mother and the child.
my humble obeisances dear Devotees,
When we take birth we already come to this world with predicted amount of food grains, water...which means by the destiny we will have enough food to maintain soul with body together. So no need to be afraid of financial problems. Child's karma is separate from parents seemingly depended. If child has a karma of a kingly life than something happens and parents get good job and start to earn nicely just because child's karma is such - to live opulently but if child's karma is to live simple life than parents may loose their job with good income and get with less income...
So by killing and committing a sin we will only increase our karmic debts. Which means we will again take birth and while in the womb we will be killed.
So do we need that?
very well said...... Suprised to see even some so called senior devotees do not believe in the potency of the lord.... and the law of karma.... jai jaganath.
Hare Krishna Mataji, PAMHO.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada, Sri Gurudev & Gauranga.
Abortion is a sin which separates a person from the fellowship of God. (As per BG Saar It clearly mentioned that doesn’t worry about future life…
“Whatever happened, happened for the good; whatever is happening, is happening for the good; whatever will happen, will also happen for the good only. You need not have any regrets for the past. You need not worry for the future. The present is happening...”
So, no problem for financially…… God will take care !! Lord Krishna is Great !!
In my opinion you should also follow the instruction of Srila Prabhupada.....
Hare Krsna Prabhu,
Sorry to correct you but what you posted is not the saar of BG.
Real spirit of BG is to take BG AS IT IS without any personal amendments or speculation. That's why our Bhagvad Gita is named by Srila Prabhupada 'Bhagvad Gita As It Is".
Hari Bol !
Hare Krishna Harish Prabhu,
This is not a whole summary of BG As It Is. This is a part only. And this is related to this topic.
I am confused:
What do you think “BG As It Is” not saying this types of information?
Actually I don’t want to discuss with you on this topic.
Thanks again for your cmt.
The topic is abortion due to not so strong financially.
Many people are facing problem in this world due to financially. Even they are not killing his baby. You cannot imagine how much sinful is abortion. You are a devotee you should have faith on God. Don't worried about financially.
Do your job but don’t hope the result. Let’s decide God.
Hare Krsna Prabhu
I understand and don't want to reply here. You can contact your local Iskcon counselor on this or mail personally at email@example.com
please dear Devotees, do not understand each other wrongly!
i am sure Harish Prabhu meant the next verses not from Bhagavad Gita:
"“Whatever happened, happened for the good; whatever is happening, is happening for the good; whatever will happen, will also happen for the good only. You need not have any regrets for the past. You need not worry for the future. The present is happening...”"
It is true it is not real translation of what Krishna told.
And Both of You Harish Prabhu and Sanjeev Prabhu are fully agree with the sinful reaction of killing embryo. So what might be the problem, isn't it?!
Sorry for oversight